Because Rosemary asked, in the long-standing debate over David Cassidy vs. Bobby Sherman, I would have to say . . . Mickey Dolenz.
But first I need to clarify. I do not think it occurred to me to have crushes on adult men who sang little-girl songs until I first discovered a magazine called “16.” I would have been 8 at the time, not that I think that makes me precocious. I think the average 16 reader was a pre-teen. There was also Tiger Beat, a better name if one is writing about that era in fiction — it would be so much more evocative. But 16, edited by Gloria Stavers, was the far superior magazine.
When I began reading16, it featured the Monkees, the Cowsills, Jack Wilde (from “Oliver” and “H.R. Pufnstuf.”) Strangely, it did not write much about Peter Firth, older brother of Colin, who was my true objet de crush, thanks to a television show called The Doubledeckers.( I say “strangely” because Colin Firth’s older brother was clearly worth writing about; nothing will persuade me to see the new Pride and Prejudice and risk my allegiance to Colin Firth as Mr. Darcy.) They would run lists of things the “boys” liked, creating the illusion that if one matched up with them in enough categories (“Hey, I’m shy at parties, too!”) then he would be your soulmate. Should you ever meet him. And you might, as 16 ran a contest in which girls did meet their faves and, I think, got a lot of records.
By the time one was 16, one wouldn’t be caught dead reading “16,” or even Seventeen. Later, I found out that the singer that Gloria Stavers most liked was Jim Morrison, who was much too scary for little girls, but she kept putting him in the magazine, anyway.
Rosemary framed this question as the eternal either-or, David versus Bobby. Other famous either-ors include:
Beatles versus the Monkees. (Even 6-year-olds knew to say the Beatles, but they were lying.)
John versus Paul. (I’m a John girl.)
Mickey versus Davy Jones, because Michael Nesmith was married and Peter Tork was weird.
Jermaine versus any other Jackson.
Cowsills versus the Partridges.
And, finally, the eternal female dilemma of identity — Betty or Veronica?
I am, alas, a Betty. What were you? And how were your choices framed, whether they were teen idols or some other defining aspect of childhood. Regular seat versus banana seat? Tank suit or bikini? Baskin Robbins or Friendly’s?
Peter Firth is in a BBC version of Northanger Abbey which I love. I thought he was Colin’s cousin. I wore out my tape of P&P so I bought the DVD which I have not watched more than 6 or 10 times. I flew to London some years ago for 4 days- largely because Colin Firth was in a Richard Greenberg play at the Donmar Warehouse(I have a f/t job, 2 kids and a spouse- but they understood)
I am a Peter Tork fan- and saw him 5 times last year(he will be perfoming in Baltimore on November 25 but I will be away) the first time I have seen him since I was 14(37 years ago). Davy was too “cute” although based on 16 or maybe Tiger Beat- I visited the “groovy” or was it “fab” shop owned by his friends in Greenwich Village.
I liked the Partridges- and talk about weird- look how Danny Bonaduce grew up.
Betty, of course
Two piece- not a bikini though- but not a tankini either- I think we just called them two pieces
Too OLD to have had the choice – banana seats did not exist for girl bikes when i was a girl bike rider. NEVER read comics, don’t know the diff between B & V.
The “smart” one – the one who appeared intellectual (but also WAS at least possibly intellectual because he wrote stuff – he wrote some songs) so it was John, it was Mike Nesmith. NEVER the cute one (sorry but i still think that Sir Paul would have never made it without LEnnon. His songs do SO not work for me.) Many memories of very obscure actors in movies that few girls would admit to watching and most folks probably haven’t heard of. (George Chakiris in “West Side Story but NOT George Maharis.)
Never Tiger Beat – it’s like sneakers. 16 and PJ Flyers, never Tiger Beat or Keds. It’s religious. But I wasn’t very old before I realized that “fashion magazines” were all ads and I was a snotty kid who wondered “why would I pay for that?” I mean, I truly expected to find something to READ in magazines, even those for girls.
BR OR Friendlys? WHAT’s this OR? Any ice cream, ALL ice cream. Friendlys and Howard Johnson’s until BR came along and then STILL. HJ’s maple walnut. And the Farm Shop.
Cowsills v Partridge? THey’re the same thing, aren’t they? No? Have you ever seen them together? Anyway, way too old for either.
“Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me” had special guest Tab Hunter today. Now HE was too old for me. My firsts were Richard Chamberlain and David McCallum (oh Ilya, swoon!)
Oh, I had forgotten about PF Flyers-definitely PF Flyers, never Keds!
Keds…..
Well….Barbara Feldon over Barbara Eden, no question about it.
J
P.S. Baskin & Robbins over Howard Johnson’s, until I worked at B&R, my first job ever. I think I can still smell that artificial ice cream on me.
I didn’t know that Peter Firth was Colin Firth’s older brother! They almost seem of different generations to me…Peter Firth will always be associated with EQUUS in my mind, and that’s what, thirty years ago???
And though she didn’t fit my visual image of Elizabeth Bennet, I think Jennifer Ehle gave a superb performance in the BBC P&P. She has an ability that seems rare in actors–the ability to seem to be truly listening.
And I don’t care how many good reviews the new version gets. You can’t tell that story in two hours.
I remember the Doubledeckers. I had a crush on Debbie Russ. I watched that silly show just to see her.
Beatles over Monkees — always, and I was telling the truth, but I liked the Monkees, too.
Barbara Feldon over Barbara Eden — but it’s close, something about being blinked small enough to get inside that bottle kinda worked for me, even as a kid.
John over Paul — if I have to choose, but I’d rather not.
I’m too young to remember the Cowsills. So it was The Partridge Family. Does anyone remember the biker guy that had a recurring guest roll on The Partridge Family? His name might’ve been Snake, and they had this eerie guitar riff that played when he came on the screen.
Banana seat … Carvel … Keds … Spiderman … Ginger
Regular seat, tank suit, (I was a boring child) and Bobby Sherman over David Cassidy-no question! A friend who was universally considered to be the “smartest” and “coolest” girl (being both was an achievment in a Catholic school) in my grade school class had this head over heels crush on David Cassidy. She was way too cool to have a crush at all but the fact that it was so intense and was on David Cassidy, remains, to this day, one of the eternal mysteries of life to me.
Oh, you must see the new P&P. I haven’t seen it yet but I plan to as soon as it makes its way up here to the mountains. I admit to being a bit of a Jane Austen obsessive (a clue as to how obsessive: have I mentioned my dachshunds, Emma and Mr. Darcy or my cat, Mr. Knightley?). But in my defense, I’ve been this way since I read P&P in high school, long before it was as fashionable as it is today and I have witnesses to prove it! Anyway, nothing comes close to the book and the Mr. Darcy in my head but Jane Austen has created such enduring, growing characters that seeing a new re-creation helps (just like rereading any decent novel almost always adds something new; only with Jane it takes centuries of interpretation and there is still always something new). I appreciate the awesome Colin Firth’s Mr. Darcy, and even if I didn’t, the absolute raves in the essays in the newly out “Flirting with Pride & Prejudice” edited by Jenny Crusie would convince me. But I suspect that there are lots of people who thought that there could never be another on-screen Mr. Darcy after Sir Laurence O. Besides which, I hear that the Mr. Collins in this version is not to be missed–and it’s hard to get pompous right.
Actually, the Good Humor ice-cream truck trumped all–the sign of summer that meant the most. Popsicles cost a nickel, but sometimes you had the quarter it cost to buy a Toasted Almond Fudge.
(In my own head, I sound like Wilford Brimley as I write this.)
The first person I ever knew who went to Vietnam was the guy who drove the ice cream truck. 1967? ’68? He was eager, excited to go, but we never found out whether the reality matched hsi expectations, because we never saw him again.
I too was a big Mickey Dolenz fan and staying true to my being known for being downright odd, I liked the Monkees better than the Beatles. Still do.
And…
Paul
Cowsills
Betty
Banana seat
Dairy Dell (there was no Baskin Robbins or Friendly’s in Podunk, IL)
I was unlikely to understand the questions. Betty who? Veronica who? What do you mean by “or?” Peer pressure never overcame my aversion to research, so I went for meta-dichotomy: Framing things as pop-culture dichotomies vs. not.
Way fewer moving parts. Easy snob factor. No research.
Early ’70′s, Industrial Mutual Auditorium, Flint, Michigan.
Alice Cooper brings out a guest for the encore–Mickey Dolenz! They sing a verse of ‘The Monkees’ theme song. One of the most surrealistic moments of my life.
Beatles/Betty/Bullwinkle/ briefs.
–john–
Joe – outside of the Sheraton Hotel in Chicago during bouchercon this year, there was – yes – a Good Humor truck. One night I gave in and in fact bought a Toasted Almond Good Humor. It tasted exactly as I remembered (a little weird – a sort of odd aftertaste I recall VERY well). I shoulda gone for the chocolate eclair which I truly recalled was my fave; my sister was the almond fan. Or just a fudgesicle – a “Fudgicle” as we called ‘em. But oh, it was time travel on a stick.
We had the Good Humor guy; or that local guy who had the BEST lemon ice. I don’ t know what else he sold as I never looked. But heaven on earth when Mr. Softee came by and i could get the world’s biggest soft ice cream cone. Ahhhhhhh.
I was too young for David Cassidy, but just right for his younger brother Shaun. I used to love The Hardy Boys/ Nancy Drew Mysteries. Perhaps this is something I will regret confessing but I don’t think one has truly lived till they have listened to Shaun’s version of Once Bitten Twice Shy — and yes, I have it on my i-pod.
I also have Leif Garrett on there too , is there a soul out there that can resist I was made for Dancing?!He was a little to old for me though. I can remember my best friend’s big sister loved him, and to go see him in concert she had to take Valerie and I to The State Fair, so I saw him in concert. All these girls were screaming and I was thinking “What the hey is this about.”
Eight short years later I was in the third row of a Billy Idol concert, and I KNEW what the big deal was, only you know Billy was way cooler then Leif, or Shaun for that matter.
Converse, not Keds. John, not Paul (but actually George). I am only a little ashamed to say that I owned both of Shaun Cassidy’s first two albums. (The third one, with the wasp on the cover, seemed too weird.)
And Mickey Dolenz, oh YES… so much so that my first boyfriend looked startlingly like a young Mickey Dolenz — which I didn’t even realize until years later.
My favorite show was the “Buddy Dean Show” in grade school. I faithfully turned it on each afternoon and dreamed of going on when I was 14. I practiced all my dance moves and was READY! Unfortunately, the year I was old enough to go on, it went off the air. I never did get over my disappointment. I think that’s why I married a musician.
When I started 9th grade,at Institute of Notre Dame right outside of the downtown area in Baltimore, I would stop at a pizza place on Howard Street (I can’t remember the name!)where all the different high school kids hung out before they took their bus home. I saw a girl reading a magazine and asked who those guys were. It was the Beatles! I heard “I wanna hold your hand” on the juke box that day and walked right over to Hutzlers and bought ” Meet the Beatles” ( the department store actually had a record dept). From then on I was hooked. I had every issue of every magazine they put out about them. I think my mother eventually threw them away! Ringo was my favorite because he reminded me of a guy I had a crush on.I liked the quirky types I guess!
Willie was our Good Humor guy and white Keds were the ONLY shoe to wear if you were a hip female under the age of 14.
John S.,
You’re right, the guy’s name was Snake. He was in 2 episodes. Originally, Snake was played by Rob Reiner. In the later episode, he was played by Stuart Margolin (of Rockford Files fame).
Bobby Sherman was posted in my bedroom. The Monkees bring back a middle school memory of girls taunting another girl, because she loved The Monkees even after they were over. Here, it was The Beatles versus The Rolling Stones, and of course, I went with The Beatles because Mick was just as scary as Jim Morrison.
I confess to coveting go-go boots and the newsboy hat that Cynthia Lennon wore. A girlfriend and I would pretend to be “the girlfriends”..she got to be Cyn because she had the outfit….I had to be Jane Asher.
I was trying to remember the Mr. Softee song. We had neither of the ice creams joints you mention, Laura, but Mr. Softee was a pretty big deal. Anyone remember what song was playing on that truck? Or might it have been different for each route?
Time travel on a stick…I like that.
Yes, I remember the aftertaste of Toasted Almond Fudge–I think it was probably DDT. And yes, we called Fudgsicles “Fudgicles,” too, though we didn’t say “creamicles,” a disparity I never understood.
And I loved Bon Joy Cups, which took half an hour to chip away at with that little wooden “spoon.”
But the coolest thing about Good Humor Ice Cream was that it wouldn’t really melt, not even when you dropped it on the sidewalk and it sat there for an hour in the hot sun.
(I’m totally out of the fashion/teen magazine/first crush part of this thread–though has anyone else mentioned Susan Dey?–but apparently I’m all over the ice cream part.)
John D.,
Thanks, I figured someone would know.
Rob Reiner????
Where did you find this, if I may ask?
If I could invent anything, it would be a television that was interactive with IMDB, so one could ask these vital questions as they occur.
No sarcasm in “vital.” I tip my hat to the man who knows both Snakes.
We joined a swim/tennis club two summers ago and they have Good Humor ice cream so I can get my Toasted Almond fix now.
Bobby Sherman, definitely. (My friend Alison and I had a poster of Donny Osmond and we threw darts at it. If we hit his teeth, we got 10 points. Not so hard).
Beatles over Monkees, and Paul over John. Okay, I was a sheep…
Thanks for naming Jack Wilde from HR Pufinstuf; someone was talking about that show and we couldn’t remember the kid’s name. Whatever happened to him??
Friendly’s ice cream all the way, as well as banana seats and Keds. Definitely a Betty.
But how about the eternal Marcia vs. Jan or Ginger vs. Maryann questions for you guys out there??
“But how about the eternal Marcia vs. Jan or Ginger vs. Maryann questions for you guys out there??”
Marcia. Jan scared me when she wore that wig. Just a little too schizo for my tastes.
And Maryann over Ginger. Ginger was waaayyy too high maintenance for a deserted island.
Believe it or not, I remembered it from back in the day. Either from the first run of the show, or from the syndicated reruns. Just to be sure, I verified it on IMDB. Sure enough, I was right. My brain is just packed full of TV and movie trivia, leaving little room for important or useful things. I’m an ace at Trivial Pursuit, but I can’t remember my ATM PIN. Oh well, better a useless talent than no talent at all.
Even back then, I wasn’t real interested in Ginger or Maryann. (Or Mrs. Howell, for that matter.)
Some of the one-shot female guest stars on Star Trek, on the other hand….
>>>>Oh well, better a useless talent than no talent at all.<<<
My mantra….
Anyone remember the Batman movie? I loved it so, I didn’t even know it was campy. I really thought the fate of the world depended on Batman reconstituting those piles of Tang that used to be major world leaders.
Beatles versus the Monkees: Beatles. No question.
John versus Paul: George.
Mickey versus Davy Jones, because Michael Nesmith was married and Peter Tork was weird: Mickey. He was funnier.
Jermaine versus any other Jackson: I refuse to answer.
Cowsills versus the Partridges: Partridges. They’re why I first picked up a guitar.
Betty or Veronica? Veronica. She has money.
Ginger or Mary Ann? Ginger. Redheads, what can I say?
Barbara Eden or Barbara Feldon? Eden.
Since Batman and Star Trek popped up -Frank Gorshin was the Riddler – loved his outfit and he was on Star Trek in the episode about racism- the two races in which each person was half black and half white but the ruling race was white(or black) on the “correct” side.
Mr Softee had a song- and I can hear it played in my head -but I don’t know the words. Mr Softee was so much more exciting than Good humor or Jack and Jill trucks- since it wasn’t prepackaged and the ice cream came out swirled and you could have toppings.
Shoes- when I went to HS in the late 60′s every girl had to have Bass Weejuns with buckle flaps and we put a ladybug straight pin(from Ladybug clothing- I never had their clothing but you could always find one of their pins in the carpet at their stores)in one of the holes in your shoe strap. I got one pair at the start of school and they were the shoes I wore every school day for a year-reheeled but not replaced until the start of the next school year.
” Anyone remember the Batman movie?”
Oh yes. It had all four of the major villains: Joker, Riddler, Penguin, and Catwoman. Catwoman was played by Lee Meriwether. Classic. And the Batboat was too cool.
” Anyone remember the Batman movie?”
Wanna hear something scary? Kids heading off to college this fall were one year old when the Tim Burton BATMAN came out.
Bam! Pow!!! I feel really old.
<i>Marcia. Jan scared me when she wore that wig. Just a little too schizo for my tastes.</i>
Well, I would’ve said Jan, but the wise John D. changed that for me. Jan did border on the unstable side. Cindy actually looks good all grown up.
<i>And Maryann over Ginger. Ginger was waaayyy too high maintenance for a deserted island.</i>
Sorry, John D., I gotta stay with Ginger on this one. I still liked her when she played J.R.’s secretary on the first season of Dallas.
Star Trek girls. Now we’re talking!!
And what about Julie Newmar as the best Catwoman.